Meghan Marklehas the mic.
The Duchess of Sussex, 41, zeroed in on the theme of ambition for thedebut episodeof her Spotify podcastArchetypes,where she and palSerena Williamsdiscussed the double standard society sets for women who chase their dreams.
In the opening of the episode, which dropped Tuesday, Meghan said that the nuns of Immaculate Heart, the all-girls Catholic school in Los Angeles she attended from sixth through twelfth grades, always empowered the students to go after what they wanted.
“This feminist ideology trickled down into nearly every aspect of my education. It’s probably safe to say into every aspect of my life,” she explained. “This message to me and my classmates was clear: our futures as young women were limitless. Ambition? That was the whole point!”
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“So I don’t remember ever personally feeling the negative connotation behind the word ‘ambitious’ until I started dating my now-husband,” she said.
Reflecting on life in the limelight asPrince Harry’s partner, she continued, “and apparently ambition is a terrible, terrible thing, for a woman that is — according to some. So, since I’ve felt the negativity behind it, it’s really hard to un-feel it. I can’t unsee it, either, in the millions of girls and women who make themselves smaller — so much smaller — on a regular basis.”
Introducing Serena as “someone who embodies the spirit of ambition,” the two addressed the negative light society views ambitious women in.
Meghan Markle, Serena Williams and Hannah Davis.Kevin Mazur/Getty
“Often women are definitely put in these different boxes when we are ambitious or when we do have goals or when we reach our goals, it’s a negative connotation on how we reach the goals,” the 40-year-old tennis superstar said.
Noting that the notion even applies to “little girls in a school room,” Meghan pointed out that if a young girl “is ambitious or raises her hand more,” she’s likely to be labeled “bossy” because of her gender, to which Serena agreed.
Later in the podcast, Meghan welcomed Dr. Laura Kray of the University of California, Berkeley, who studies how ambitious women are viewed in the world and workplace.
Kray, a professor at the Haas School of Business and faculty director for the school’s Center for Equity, Gender and Leadership, said that research shows ambitious women are often perceived as “power hungry, manipulative, not trusted,” while ambitious men are seen as admirable.
Meghan Markle.Spotify
Condensing the construct to an “antipathy towards women,” Kray said that the implication perpetuates to keep women “in their place.”
Meghan agreed, adding that women who dare to defy are often criticized.
“She gets labels thrown at her. Like, ‘she’s a climber,’ or ‘she’s competitive.’ Which, in turn, leads to a ripple effect of even more negative labels,” the host said. “And this workplace backlash continues when it comes to another big role that many women play — as moms.”
“The double standard between how men and women are treated after having kids is so, so real. I’ve felt it,” Meghan, who shares sonArchie, 3, and daughterLilibet, 1, withPrince Harry. “And it’s certainly been a big part of Serena’s story as well,” she added, noting the pressure her friend has faced on the court after welcoming daughterOlympiain 2017.
Closing the conversation, Meghan called out the unjust connotations connected to ambition today, “especially for women.”
“The misconception that if you’re an ambitious woman, you have an agenda, you must be calculating, or you’re selfish or aggressive, or a climber, and that if you’re that fierce or strong or brave, then you somehow deserve whatever gets thrown at you,” she argued. “However disproportionate or unfair it may be. And even when it’s more than most could endure, most men, most anyone.”
Meghan Markle.Chris Jackson/Getty Images
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As Serenaevolves away from professional tennisafter 25 years, Meghan said she knows her friend will continue chasing her goals off the court with the same passion that has made her a legend.
“She’s going to continue to do great things. To be the greatest of all time off the court. To be ambitious, and I think that’s a beautiful thing,” she said.
Archetypes intends to “investigate the labels that try to hold women back,” according to a previously shared press release. Speaking with historians and experts, Meghan will “uncover the origin of these stereotypes and have uncensored conversations with women who know all too well how these typecasts shape narratives.”
Next week’s guest will beMariah Carey.
source: people.com
